Ha long bay climbing guide for beginners reddit. We are going to Ninh Binh and the Ha Long Bay.

Ha long bay climbing guide for beginners reddit. It was a really small boat, probably 25-30 guests in total, very cozy, the deck was pretty close to the water. Archived post. More than 230 deep water solo lines on 24 cliffs, from 4a to 7c+ wait for you in the bay, all in a day trip distance from Cat Ba Town. I looked it up and there's a recent edition and one from like 2001 or something. Our guide when we went also explained that the hike is borderline advanced as well. Hi! I’m in Hanoi and the (booked) plan is to do a day trip to Ninh Binh, Hanoi the next day, then 4D3N Ha Giang loop. You can also try squid fishing at night and take in the sunset/sunrise. I saw in another post about party hostels and saw someone mentioned castaway party island at Ha Long Bay Vietnam for 3 days 2-night tour. Where to go rock climbing near Hanoi beginners? Discover top spots like Cat Ba Island, essential gear, safety tips, and how to find guides for your adventure. Honestly I enjoyed the overnight boat - once you add on the 2 hour drive from Hanoi I feel like you need the overnight to truly appreciate it. Do you know how to reach any local guide to tour us throught these places or if any of you is a local guide that would like to guide us? Dec 4, 2024 · Experience the thrill of climbing Halong Bay’s limestone cliffs. Halong bay is definitely worth seeing, one of those amazing, iconic places that don't turn up very often, with a look and feel you need to see to understand. However, there are also many options for experienced climbers to challenge themselves. If you like the experience to stay at a boat for one night and you like talking to other people on the boat (maybe with some karaoke and partying in the evening), you will enjoy the trip. I will be solo traveling north to south Vietnam and want to check out the climbing scene. com Jul 6, 2023 · Our expert guides, who are seasoned climbers themselves, will lead you through a variety of routes suitable for climbers of all levels, from beginners to advanced. It's definitely too good to miss, therefore most people go on cruise this explore this magnificent places however, I won't probably be able to afford it. We dont want a very over crowded boat or tour. Experience secluded beaches, charming floating villages, and an unforgettable starry night skies. Like, don’t get me wrong I love parties a lot! Ha Long Bay, often referred to as the “Descending Dragon Bay,” is a natural marvel studded with numerous attractions that will leave you awe-struck. If you are an independent climber you can explore the crags of the main island Cat Ba on your own, you just need an access pass from Asia Jul 17, 2024 · Unveil the stunning splendor of Ha Long Bay with our comprehensive guide to "Things to do in Ha Long Bay. Met him at a place in Hai Phong called the craft beer tap room (side note: best burger I’ve ever had. This is the pleasant part. $300 is pretty much a decent amount for the cruise. If anybody has any experience climbing in Vietnam I would love some pointers on areas, access, or routes that are must do. Accompanied by Youtube videos to support the exercises. It's sorta equal parts physical and mental training, gear advice and instruction on. Great dude. I think technically that part near Cat Ba is not actually called Halong Bay, but it looks still absolutely stunning. Jan 31, 2025 · Hi, I'm looking at going to Vietnam in March and I'm keen to spend a week checking out the climbing in Ha Long Bay. Looks great, how much farther was the water? Looks like ride is low. And I definitely don’t want to be a part of group of 30 drivers who have been heavily drinking the night before. The entire area can be best described as HaLong Bay, but on land. We stayed in a hotel in Ha Long for a few nights, hired a moped for 2 days. This is important because I read reviews that mentioned it was very dirty and crowded in Ha Long Bay but this is not my experience so far. Considering the time of year, would you recommend going to Cat Ba for a couple days, or just doing the Day tour from Hanoi? Pros The best thing to do in Halong Bay is taking a cruise, but you can also choose to explore the Cat Ba Island or take a stunning scenic flight. Also interested in deep water soloing :) Thanks in advance! The rock climbing in halong bay is one of most popular and interesting activities. 6M subscribers in the travel community. The home of Climbing on reddit. We are going to Ninh Binh and the Ha Long Bay. Here’s how to visit Ha Long Bay in Vietnam. It looks amazing and am wondering if it is a must do or not? Ha, Long Bay is a crucial experience as a destination in Vietnam, and I'm excited to hear that you're planning a trip there. Dedicated to increasing all our knowledge about how to better improve at our sport. Even the reviews that have given it an excellent rating are questioning it's value. Climbing mt rainier (edit with a guide) doesn’t require experience but strong physical fitness is a must as well as $2500 or so for guide and rental equip. Reddit's rock climbing training community. My girlfriend and I are planning to travel to Hanoi in December and we'd like to visit some spots nearby. Most of the southern beachs are way better. 3M subscribers in the climbing community. There’s far too much garbage, there is no infrastructure to deal with it, the fuels costs for doing it properly are astronomical and the government does t want that sort of activity cutting into its profits. Jay, our guide, took us to some incredible spots perfect for my beginner and my wife’s intermediate levels. You may chooses from avariety of beginner through advance routes your guide will then set up a top – rope systerm so that you may ascend the rock safely and worry free, Rock climb over the tuguoise water of halong bay and enjoy from a view unlike any other. Led by professional guides, a wide range of climbing routes awaits you with an opportunity to visit the highlights of Halong Bay and do other kinds of adventure. Edit: you can take a kayak and go rock climbing once you’re there Long time ago, just remember that it was somewhere in Halong bay. Now I'm finally in Ha Long, this was supposed to be the real tropical paradise stop with beaches and swimming. Halong Bay and Cat Ba Island are amongst the best places for rock climbing in Vietnam. I am looking for a climbing group or agency that organises these kind of trips. Halong is already very well-known internationally thanks to its status as a World Heritage Site while Ninh Binh is much more underrated despite its fascinating beauty. These are scenic boat rides where you're rowed around by a local for a couple of hours among the limestone mountains Lol best beach? The scenery is one of the best but best beach unlikely. It is a must-visit for every Vietnamese tour. Whether you’re an absolute beginner or a thrill-seeking climber, Halong Bay Rock Climbing gives the perfect blend of challenge and beauty. A word of caution about Mt. A lot of forums seem to recommend Sapa and Halong Bay, however with the limited time, can only do one. You can kayak into hidden lagoons, through limestone archways, grottoes, and floating villages. r/travel is a community about exploring the world. Every city have had its unique feeling and I have loved it so far. First day we drove along the bay. Aug 5, 2024 · January is a spectacular time to visit Halong Bay, the UNESCO-listed World Natural Heritage in Vietnam due to many reasons. Hey everyone, I'm going to Vietnam for October and will be looking to get in some climbing there. Ha long bay is something we're planning to do, but the itineraries seem the same between companies and we came up with the idea of maybe just going to Ha Long and spending the night there to book a day cruise from town. There is nothing to do and it’s full of new extremely crappy construction aimed at Chinese and Vietnamese tourists. Climb the limestone islets on a rock-climbing excursion. After some websites posted news that Australian climber and photographer - Simon Carter - had an article praising Halong Bay as one of the 5 most wonderful climbing spots in the world, many people were curious. 5. 5 hours, USD25/way), a seaplane (30min and USD275/pay without scenic tour over Halong Bay and 45min and USd375/way with scenic tour over Halong Bay) is definitely suggestions for easy outdoors TR, sport, and/or bouldering in Bay Area SF? Ninh Binh is about a 2 hour bus ride away from Hanoi. I will be traveling with my family and then solo. A couple months ago I met a guide named Thomas who leads tours climbing the structures around Ha Long bay and Cat Ba island. Kayak through the towering limestone karsts. And yes we are scared of falling. Oct 12, 2023 · Ha Long Bay Vietnam is naturally blessed with exquisite settings of limestone pillars and emerald waters. An experienced hiker friend of mine said that Sembrano is their advanced training hike for their mountaineering group. Jun 6, 2023 · Some climbing routes may require more experience and skill than others, so it’s important to do your research and choose a route that matches your level of experience. Many people do it as a day trip, but I would recommend at least two full days for the place. I have spent time all over the country and have been to Ho Chi Minh, Da Lat, Nha Trang, Da Nang and Hoi An. There are. (White fine sand is of Hi, 25m planning a backpacking trip to South East Asia early august. well, extreme alpinism. Does anyone have recommendations / experience with how to best go about it? Can you just rent a kayak or is it best to go guided? First of all I want to say after spending 2 of my 3 weeks in Vietnam so far it's been great. Climbing in a gym won't teach you much in terms of the technical skills needing for mountaineering but it will give you some groundwork for progressing to rock climbing outdoors. I've been to Ha Long Bay a few times myself, and I can tell you that the best way to experience it is by taking a cruise. Visit the floating villages. There are more than 120 sport climbing routes on 13 crags, from 4a to 8a on Cat Ba Island and the beaches of Ha Long Bay. The area has several sport Climbing routes and has vast potential for further development. This activity is usually combined with kayaking to explore natural environment of Halong Bay. Had the option of being lowered over the side in a kayak and going for a spin around the bay in the early morning. 11 and boulder ~V2/3 but I don't have any gear with me. Ready to conquer the cliffs? Let’s begin! Apr 27, 2020 · Considered one of the best rock climbing spots in Asia, Vietnam is ideal for rock climbers if they come in the right season, which allows them to avoid touristy crowds. Deep water solo Ha Long Bay Vietnam, looking for advice and recommendations! Hi guys, I am travelling through Vietnam and would be a fool not to check out Ha Long bay and the absolutely stunning DWS. We would like a less crowded tour and place. My family is not into climbing. Oct 28, 2024 · Below are the names of the 5 best places to join rock climbing in Halong Bay. Your pictures, questions… A rock climbing and deep water soloing guide of Ha Long Bay, Lan Ha Bay and Cat Ba Island. There is time and place for parties, like Halong bay booze cruise cause there is nothing else to do on the cruise ship anyway, or just Hanoi backpackers hostels. " From enchanting cruises to hidden caves, explore top tips and must-see attractions for an unforgettable adventure in Vietnam's natural marvel. great for a beginner trad leader. By Luca De Giorgi, Chris Johnson, Gavrila Piper, and Asia Outdoors. They rent out gear and set up excursions to do deep water soloing and other types of climbing in the bay and on the island. Jul 2, 2025 · If you are planning a trip to Halong Bay Vietnam, this ultimate Halong travel guide will give you everything you need to know to plan the perfect vacation. But to be honest it would be a waste not to visit places like Sapa, Da nang, Hoi an, etc when you are in Hanoi. How is the climbing scene in Vietnam? I am debating if I should bring any gear like shoes and a harness or just rent them. Then they take you back to Hanoi. Me and my wife will be in Ha long for 2 days. This is our list of things you should do at least once when visiting Halong bay: Sleep on board a junk ship. Halong bay climbing is a Paradise of Thrill Seekers. Discover Halong bay on an overnight cruise. 8K votes, 148 comments. L'objectif étant le partage d'informations pour organiser une sortie, un weekend, un voyage Plus de 7000 sites d’escalade sont répertoriés avec leurs topos papier associés et des topos numérique pour smartphones. Sitting in an Hanoi restaurant tossing up whether to go to ha long bay or not. Genesis Regal takes route 3 which is open to only 5 star cruises, of which there are 40. I was planning to do an overnight cruise in Ha Long Bay during my trip, however some of the threads have me a bit concerned. Is it that important to get the newer one or will the dirt cheap older print do me pretty well? Discover Ha Long Bay, Vietnam: Cruise emerald waters, explore ancient caves, and experience the mystical beauty of thousands of rugged islands and islets. Discover the best climbing spots, tips for beginners, and family-friendly adventures. May 1, 2023 · Guidebooks for Climbing in Vietnam ‘Vietnam Climbing’ by Luca De Giorgio & Gavi Piper is the only comprehensive guidebook for the climbing in Vietnam. That’s what the Ha Long and the Lan Ha Bay Management teams are supposed to be doing. 8. Secondly, we are trying to decide between Ha Long Bay or Lan Ha Bay. Ive read a lot of negative reviews on Reddit about the cleanliness of the water at ha long bay. I am wondering if anyone else has been there, and how was the experience comparing to regular ha long bay 3d2n cruise? Do you miss out on sightseeing cuz all the drinking and partying? Bay Area Bouldering/Climbing guide Options. When I’m alone I’d like to go to either sapa or Ha Giang. Reading reviews on trip advisor and the general consensus is that it isn't worth the money. . It is the largest and the most popular crag in Cat Ba, about 35 mins from Cat Ba town by scooter. After visiting for my first time I have to say I was astonished at the beauty of it! 283 votes, 27 comments. Recently, however, there have been more and more foreign visitors asking which destination they should pick between the two. There's a couple of other ice instruction books (Climbing Ice, Yvon Choinard, Ice World, Jeff Lowe) that may or may not belong on r/climbing 's book list. The majority of their guided trips were aimed at beginners, but they are the only company licensed to guide DWS (or any climbing) in the area. Deep Water Solo Climbing in Lan Ha and Ha Long Bay is one of the most personally rewarding and exciting activities you can do here, You will find a plethora of limestone islands with sheer cliff faces polka-dotting the bays, and one of the best ways to enjoy this surreal scenery is by climbing. When I was last a climber there there was a pretty strong "no rap bolting" ethic at some of the orient bay crags, but hopefully that's gone now. 4M subscribers in the climbing community. Amazing rock climbing experience in Ha Long Bay. Look up Vietnam backpacker hostel ha long bay castaway island trip. I'm somewhat experienced at climbing- can sport lead 5. That's why, I'm thinking about alternatives - going to Cat Ba island and staying there for several nights or getting to Ha Long and exploring Mar 6, 2024 · Experience the ultimate thrill with Ha Long Bay rock climbing! Join us for an unforgettable adventure, scaling the majestic peaks in Vietnam's natural wonder. I was their last week! Went with Hanoi backpackers hostel (original ) costly ( £130) but brilliant fun if your a young traveller , spent 1 night on a boat then the next on a private island in halong bay did kayaking , rock climbing , swimming, tubing etc. Find the best Rock Climbing & Deep-water soloing in Vietnam, selected by local expert. With over 3000 limestone karst rising from the sea. Hello! This is the global dual-language Reddit home of the country Vietnam. However, read on to find out what you should pack to visit Halong Bay in January. Sembrano, it's actually a challenging hike for beginners. The cruise me and my buddies did in HLB wasn't a cruise like you'd expect from Carnival or something like that. 5 hours, 150 000vnd/way), a regular cruise company shuttle (4. Does anyone know what is like as a solo traveller? Is there a climbers hostel or anything to find partners? I've seen alot of guided tours online, but would be keen to just go cragging without a guide. This builds upon ‘Ha Long Bay Climbing (2016)’ by Luca De Giorgio and Asia Outdoors as well as Erik Ferjentsik’s ‘Vietnam: a Climber’s Guide’. If you’re in the market for a guide, my wife and I went out with folks from the Railay Rock Climbing Shop on walking street and had an AMAZING time. The picture here was taken from one of the boat rides in the area. Start your day early from Hanoi and head to Cat Ba Island for an epic Deep Water Solo adventure in the stunning Lan Ha Bay. However If you do not want to carry gear I read recently that a Lan Ha bay tour is better as there are only something like 50 boats in lan ha, compared to about 150 in ha long. Sport Climbing in the area at present offers mainly routes above 7a ( french grade) which rise from beautiful stretches of white sandy beach. Enjoy the view of Ha Long Bay from a speedboat, you can climb the cliff to your limit and enjoy the breathtaking view as a reward before jumping into the water. Chào mừng bạn đến với ngôi nhà trên Reddit của Việt Nam. Hi R/climbing, I was wondering if anyone had any info on climbing in Ha Long Bay? where is the best place to stay? Whats best way/price of getting a boat? and where should I fly to? A cheaper way to see Halong Bay is to get to Cat Ba island on your own (bus/ regular ferry or with a small boat), and then when on Cat Ba, take a day cruise on a boat out to Halong Bay. Nowadays, Vietnam is seeing new developments in rock climbing annually. Make your reservations right when they release the dates (summer / fall the year before). Rock Climbing Technique: The Practical Guide to Movement Mastery by John Kettle - A book of exercises to improve climbing movement. In addition to the thrill of climbing, you'll also have the opportunity to immerse yourself in the natural wonders of Halong Bay and Cat Ba Island. 5 Biomechanical Tips to Improve Your Climbing Technique by u/stoneyviolist - A sports medicine take on climbing form. Nov 15, 2024 · Whether you’re a beginner at Butterfly Valley or seeking the thrill of Ha Long Bay’s limestone islands, there’s something here for everyone. In addition, Ha Long City is a terrible place to visit. As for booking a cruise, I highly recommend you research beforehand. Tripadvisor has alot of Ha long bay tours and cruises, there are alot of major operators in that area like Hanoi green, paradise, etc. See full list on vietnamdiscovery. Which one would you recommend? or are there better alternatives? On Cat ba Island in Halong Bay is a climbing shop called slo pony. ) Don’t know much more information beyond that. Explore the caves and The tour guide mentioned that there are 4 different routes in Ha Long Bay. A friend and I are heading to Vietnam and have heard of their deep water soloing in the islands off Ha Long Bay. So apparently Bay Area Rock is the best place to start as far as buying a guide book. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. The climbing grades range from 4a to 8a+ in Halong Bay and Cat Ba Island. Climbers can scale the iconic karst formations that rise dramatically from the sea, with routes ranging from beginner-friendly to challenging for experienced climbers. Dec 28, 2023 · Join us for rock climbing in Ha Long Bay! Experience adventure and wonder as we ascend these stunning limestone cliffs together. A lot of posts in different forums have mentioned about the bay being extremely dirty with floating garbage in most places and smelling of diesel everywhere. An abundance of climbing routes can be found in Halong Bay. It will be a bit too cold for water activities, but overall pleasant for a short stay. From there, becoming proficient at placing trad gear and then moving on to snow, ice and mixed opens up a huge amount of possibilities. I'm starting to scrap the barrel with my budget so it's a pretty difficult decision. Hey I’m a new climber and I was wondering if people had some wisdom to share and what you wish you knew when you started… I will be arriving into Vietnam in a few days and I am after some info of where to climb, from what I hear Cat Ba Island and the Halong Bay area is basically the place to be. Start climbing, you'll figure out very quickly what your skill level is. I dont remember the name or grade of the route, I guess its between 6 and 7 on norwegian scale. Routes are tall, many multipitches. The best beach I have been to is Bai Sao in Phu Quoc, pristine white fine sand with line of coconut tree right above you, in the water you can find small marine lifes like fish and starfish (not sure it’s still apply today with so much tourists though). I don’t have experience on a bike and wondering if it’s worth trying to go with a guide or if doing tours with a hostel would Jul 2, 2025 · It is unclear when the comparison between Halong Bay and Ninh Binh begun. Boating through ClimbingAway, c'est un site web et 2 applications smartphone dédiés à l'escalade en pleine nature. The supportive climbing community and the availability of expert-guided tours enhance the experience ensuring safety and fun. You stay there two nights and three days. What they Rock climbing in Halong bay is the most unique and exciting way to make your trip to Ha Long Bay most memorable. Second one we took the ferry to Cat Ba (quite cheap I think it was 150k Dongs for 2 with moped), drove on the island until the national park and hiked up to Dinh Ngu Lam. Jan 18, 2023 · Vietnam has several top roping locations, but deep water soloing, which is rock climbing above water without ropes, is only allowed in Lan Ha Bay, a section of Halong Bay. I will be alone for a week in Hanoi before meeting a friend. The weather is cool and clear, with a touch of chill in the early morning. If you are also wondering Vietnam's most popular and frequently visited location The Ha Long Bay, which is also recognised as a UNESCO World Heritage Site, is situated in Vietnam's northeast, close to HaLong City. One question I’ve always had about DWS…what do you do about wet shoes when you fall in? Are wet shoes inside not aggravating for climbing? Xin Chao moi nguoi! Does anyone know a rock climbing guide I could pay to go climbing in Ha Long / Cat Ba next week? One tour agency said that Cat Ba is closed due to COVID but I am unsure. Which would you recommend for a first timer? Seems like Ha Long Bay is a little more spectacular and can walk inside caves but super duper touristy, Lan Ha Bay slightly less touristy but a little less grand? Or is it just worth it to go to both? Is it worth it to stay on Cat Ba? Hi there, Halong Bay is a must-do in Vietnam and the trip to Halong Bay, whether you take a public bus from Luong Yen (5. 122 votes, 198 comments. Is it easy to meet other climbers or get good climbing guides? I am not looking to climb anything specific, just want to get out and climb in a different country. It’s 199 USD and they pick you up in Hanoi, bring you to ha long bay, and booze cruise you to a private island. Ride a bicycle across Cat Ba Island. Thanks in advance. It's even possible to go down from Hanoi in the morning, do an afternoon lunch tour, and go back in the evening, but that's cutting it short and subjecting yourself to a Ha Long Bay Ha Long Bay, a UNESCO World Heritage Site renowned for its emerald waters and towering limestone islands, also offers exceptional rock climbing opportunities. You can find over 100 routes on 10 different cliffs (crags). After that, I’m torn on either going to Cat Ba to stay for a couple days or doing a day tour from Hanoi to Ha Long Bay before going to Phong Nha. Anyone climbing near Ha Long Bay tomorrow? I'm there for one day and would long to tag along with someone if you are and can show me some cool dws… Not already a member? Sign up for free and join our growing global community of rock climbers. 1. The gym you sign up for will grade their problems and you'll settle into a range where you know which grade you can do easily and which is more of a challenge or too difficult to try. Including climbing in Halong Bay, Mai Chau, Hoi An and Dalat. For beginners, it is recommended to go with a guide or take a beginner climbing course. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. It is surrounded by local farms and green mountains, making it a true escape from the chaos of big cities. We're in Hanoi currently and didn't plan ahead, so that's on us. There are many places for rock climbing in Vietnam, namely Halong Bay, Cat Ba island, Huu Lung in Hanoi, etc. What would be the ideal day tour among the above mentioned. I am traveling to Vietnam over the holiday period and would love to do some rock climbing in Ha Long Bay. We will be doing ha long bay together before heading to central Vietnam. The famous Australian climber has conquered the peaks in the middle of Halong Bay and considered it one of the 5 most beautiful climbing spots in the world. Any recommendations on guiding companies? I found 1 company in Ha Long Bay for deep water soloing but want to hear your personal experience. Seriously. I want to spend around 3-4 weeks climbing around the area, does anyone know of any good places to stay or hangout with like minded people? I am still a total beginner as my first time climbing was a month ago in Yangshuo . For beginners, intermediate and advanced climbers who would like to have fun rock climbing and experience the beautiful limestone of Buddha cave and Fisher Valley. Mar 13, 2025 · Ha Long Bay for adventure seekers: This guide will show you the best ways to explore Hạ Long Bay beyond the usual tourist experiences. I'm going to Ha Long Bay and then Dalat at the end of the month with some other places in between. As you embark on your adventure through these breathtaking landscapes, here are the must-visit attractions and landmarks that should be at the top of your list: Grab the Kings climbing book to scope out routes. It doesn't matter how long you spend there but you should see it. Any recommendations regarding which day-tour to take and if any specific company provides luxury day tours in any of the locations. In short: January is among As the journey to Vietnam keeps getting closer, I still haven't figured how to approach Ha Long Bay. Research, both on the internet and reddit, has proven to be unsuccessful, besides posts from 8 years ago that reference a tour company that seems to no longer exist. What many blogs/vlogs show are the grassland trails near the summit. 202 votes, 17 comments. The latest guide was published in November 2018 and covers pretty much everything you In Ha Long Bay all tourism is pretty severely restricted and uniform in terms of where you go and what you can do. Local tour guide: Ha Long & Ninh Binh Hi all, me and a friend of mine are going to visit Vietnam in August. Join the conversation and start planning your adventure! Ha Long Bay is one of the most majestic Climbing areas of the world. r/Vietnam sử dụng cả hai ngôn ngữ tiếng Việt và tiếng Anh. Sail among thousands of majestic limestone karsts, and nearly 2000 islands, that rise out of the calm jade-colored waters. CA recense des informations concernant les falaises extrêmes où les And honestly the views you get by taking the ferry from Cat Ba to Ha Long are almost the same as during the Ha Long Bay cruise. Jul 1, 2023 · Ha Long Bay is a truly iconic UNESCO site in Vietnam. Using a clear travel rating system, I share what the experience is like—plus tips from my own trip. Book your climbing tour now! Dec 16, 2023 · Dive into "ha long bay reddit" and explore authentic experiences, tips, and tales of this UNESCO marvel. Day 1 Ha Long Bay Day 2 Ninh Binh - sleeper bus to Sapa 10pm - 4am Day 3 Sapa - sleeper bus back to Hanoi Day 4 Hanoi Ninh Binh if Trang An, may 500 steps stairs make sure prepared ka dito, then Sa Pa ganun din if youre going to Fansipan. Butterfly Valley. yprndl vvib mmecdk jbmta ioriz gtyhzjg huzgh jfurmic fhzrac ctms